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Post by Keyser Soze on Feb 29, 2024 13:36:45 GMT -6
Itp6 Jordan wasn't that good. He started with a 100 jumping. Him not being that good was the only reason why I could trade Hakeem for him then. I don't think that was the only reason. I think the other reason might be the GM not being too bright. But whatever happened then, what does it mean for today? Because today. Right now. Michael Jordan is entering this league with B+ B- B B+ C A ratings. He is the best prospect to ever enter this league. Chamberlain is the best big man prospect to ever enter this league. (If you factor in him being 18 years old) I'm struggling to see what the problem is.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,062
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Post by Kong on Feb 29, 2024 13:53:42 GMT -6
For his career, Jordan averages 2.7 turnovers per game for 38.3 minutes and with the highest possible usage.
Those aren't that many turnovers when you compare with other players in here that started with much better handles than 40 but have more career turnovers in less minutes and with lower usage.
Jordan does have B handling grade but handling grade is mostly affected by passing. Not handling rating.
So all things considered, I think Jordan should start with handles in the 60-65 range if he is lower right now.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,062
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Post by Kong on Feb 29, 2024 14:02:52 GMT -6
And for Wilt, I think he deserves a high strength. I mean, it is Wilt.
And if increasing his strength increases one of his grades then decrease another rating. But I like I said, potential doesn't improve strength so strength shouldn't be lowered if player has high potential. If any, lower ratings like rebounding that are more affected by potential.
And potential also affects inside rating little, so Wilt should be improved to the point where he has a better inside grade than at least Hakeem because Wilt is considered to be one of the most dominant players of all times. Should he have a higher inside grade than Jordan? I would place Jordan 1st but he should be higher than Hakeem no doubt about I mean. And if that makes him too good then decrease something else of his game. Wilt is known for more than 1 thing but especially for his inside (inside rating and strength) so give him that.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Feb 29, 2024 14:05:27 GMT -6
For his career, Jordan averages 2.7 turnovers per game for 38.3 minutes and with the highest possible usage. Those aren't that many turnovers when you compare with other players in here that started with much better handles than 40 but have more career turnovers in less minutes and with lower usage. Jordan does have B handling grade but handling grade is mostly affected by passing. Not handling rating.
So all things considered, I think Jordan should start with handles in the 60-65 range if he is lower right now.
Michael Jordan averaged 2.6 TPG in his peak season with you. happytailsnaturals.com/ITP6/1990/html/players/player435.htmIn 38.something minutes ironically. So isn't that pretty much identical to the real life number?
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,062
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Post by Kong on Feb 29, 2024 14:08:49 GMT -6
Lol, why you keep arguing with me if I am not asking for something unreasonable?
LaMelo Ball started with 85+ handles in all iterations that he was present when he is a 3.3 turnovers per game player for 31.9 minutes.
So why a 60-65 for Jordan is so unreasonable if he averages less turnovers in more minutes and with a higher usage?
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Post by Keyser Soze on Feb 29, 2024 14:13:41 GMT -6
Lol, why you keep arguing with me if I am not asking for something unreasonable? LaMelo Ball started with 85+ handles in all iterations that he was present when he is a 3.3 turnovers per game player for 31.9 minutes. So why a 60-65 for Jordan is so unreasonable if he averages less turnovers in more minutes and with a higher usage?
What does LaMelo Ball have to do with Michael Jordan? You mentioned Jordan's handles like they were some sort of detriment. You then referenced his career numbers, as if they were significantly better. Turns out the turnovers were exactly the same. I was just stating a fact. I'm not arguing. I'm just having a conversation.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,062
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Post by Kong on Feb 29, 2024 14:27:33 GMT -6
Well, the way I see it I agree that star players should all have lower handles but that's not what happens.
Take LeBron for instance. One of the most named players after Jordan and one of the players with highest usage all time behind Jordan.
This Season for example he started with 64 handles. The range I am asking. And Lebron is a real life 3.5 turnovers player for 38 minutes per game.
Some less seconds than Jordan but with 0.8 more turnovers.
So when you put it like that if you give Jordan 40 handles and Lebron 64 for a start you are making Lebron better for no reason.
Which is why I think Jordan should be in that 60-65 range. For this iteration at least with how things work.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Feb 29, 2024 14:32:35 GMT -6
Well, the way I see it I agree that star players should all have lower handles but that's not what happens. Take LeBron for instance. One of the most named players after Jordan and one of the players with highest usage all time behind Jordan.
This Season for example he started with 64 handles. The range I am asking. And Lebron is a real life 3.5 turnovers player for 38 minutes per game. Some less seconds than Jordan but with 0.8 more turnovers. So when you put it like that if you give Jordan 40 handles and Lebron 64 for a start you are making Lebron better for no reason. Which is why I think Jordan should be in that 60-65 range. For this iteration at least with how things work.
How do we know what LeBrons handles were at his initial build? He was 18. What if the handles shot up in his 1st TC? And how do you know what Michael Jordan's present day handles are? Is it safe to say you're making assumptions that may or may not be true?
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,062
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Post by Kong on Feb 29, 2024 14:35:59 GMT -6
And Kobe also started this iteration in the 60-65 range with 61 handles while averaging 3 turnovers per 36.1 minutes. Another worse average than that for Jordan.
And those are the 2 guys that you would compare to Jordan with Jordan being on top of them so for this iteration I think what I am asking is reasonable.
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Post by John1974 on Feb 29, 2024 15:16:27 GMT -6
What a useless bunch of posts without knowing ratings. This is now locked for lotto.
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