90 Draft Class Editing Thread with Top 20

[aceman034]

One thing I noticed:

Jayson Williams is a C+ def and C rebounding???

He was one of the best rebounders in the league and lead the league multiple times in this category. I think those two categories should be bumped up considerably?

[josh]

Payton's outside rating is too high...B- to start is a max...Payton's outside shooting will get some attention when TC rolls around.

Toni Kukoc having higher defense than Lionel Simmons is laughable. Simmons was a guy who could effectively defend SGs, SFs and PFs while forcing TOs AND blocking shots. Simmons needs to have A- defense at least.

I don't think Jayson Williams needs A potential...I'm OK with his starting ratings if he has B potential.

The handling for the big men seems too high overall. A guy like Coleman could have C handling, but Elden Campbell and Tyrone Hill? Please. Handling in general seems a bit high, especially for guys like Willie Burton. B handling for a guy that averaged 2 assists and 3 TOs per game? Bo Kimble is in the same boat here...

Abdul-Rauf also has inflated handling...His handles were pretty good, but not a B+. I feel the same way about Dee Brown...He only averaged 3.7 apg...He looks like more of a SG build to me, so B- handling could work to make him a nice combo guard. B+ seems high.

Kendall Gill's defense is too low. He averaged 2 steals and .5 blocks per 36 minutes. Not bad for a SG. Gill also needs better handling, probably C+. Early in his career he averaged 4-5.5 apg routinely.

Kukoc seems overrated in general to me...B+ inside? I'd give Toni maybe C+ inside and B+ outside and let potential do the rest. Also, he was a decent defender, but A- is too high to start...1 steal per game career, .3 blocks, etc. He was also never an amazing man up defender. B/B+ defense to start would be more than OK for Kukoc.

Tyrone Hill is not an A- defending big man. He's a PF that averaged .5 blocks per game. He was a great rebounder and an OK scorer, but a defender he was not...B- defense would be completely appropriate to start, with decent post defense and not much in shotblocking.

Antonio Davis is wildly overrated as well. 10ppg career, 7.5 rpg, 1bpg. This doesn't equal B+ C C A B+ A. Davis could be B- C- C- B B and I wouldn't have a problem with it at all, but his ratings need to come WAY down.

Everything else looks OK. Cedric Ceballos looks really accurate, which is nice. Anyway, the class as is really isn't close, as most guys have inflated ratings, but it will get there if some of the above suggestions are taken.

[joshbounds]

Made changes based on Josh's outlook.. Help me narrow it down from here guys...

[josh]

Antonio Davis is still way overrated...A- defense is ridiculous for that guy.

Abdul Rauf really doesn't need B+ handling, neither does Dee Brown...The last thing we need is MORE guys with inflated handling...

Everything else looks OK.

[joshbounds]

Changed Davis to B Defense, Abdul and Brown's handling to B. Hopefully that does it.. Ive been trying to get your guy's insight for over a week! Thanks Josh, its good to know someone that knows the game gets the main word in...

[New York Knicks]

That's a little better

[John1974]

Once you guys hash it out I will begin the edits.

[New York Knicks]

Another thing. Who's Douglas Green?

[ricaug7]

I honestly think ITP makes draft classes too strong especially when owners are able to camp players.

This is more of a general comment than one related to the current draft class.

[josh]

Aug 18, 2009 15:16:52 GMT -6 @ricaug7 said:

I honestly think ITP makes draft classes too strong especially when owners are able to camp players.

This is more of a general comment than one related to the current draft class.

I agree, which is one of the reasons why the vast majority of my proposals were downgrades...The camp system in this league is fun, but it does create monster players.

[bosco]

+1 to that.

[New York Knicks]

Finally people see what I was saying before?

Aug 11, 2009 16:31:23 GMT -6 New York Knicks said:

Exactly. Were already seeing veteran versions Rice, Hardaway, etc in their rookie years since we made them too good.

Give the guys a solid starting point, and strong potential. If you give them a great beginning, along with the potential, (AND spending camps) then you"re creating a league full of monsters.

[don1955]

why change now as man this is the first year i get a chance to maybe get a 'monster'...every draft has had some, now i want a chance to get one in the 90 & 91 drafts...lower the rating in a later draft... ;D

[voker84]

Aug 18, 2009 15:16:52 GMT -6 @ricaug7 said:

I honestly think ITP makes draft classes too strong especially when owners are able to camp players.

This is more of a general comment than one related to the current draft class.

Ditto

[New York Knicks]

Aug 18, 2009 18:07:17 GMT -6 don1955 said:

why change now as man this is the first year i get a chance to maybe get a 'monster'...every draft has had some, now i want a chance to get one in the 90 & 91 drafts...lower the rating in a later draft... ;D

Selfish Donald

[ricaug7]

Derrick Coleman is insanely good for a rookie... I don't think this is a good thing for the league, having rookies this good with A potential and the possibility to be camped immediately. Doesn't make sense.

[ricaug7]

Same goes for Lionel Simmons, Felton Spencer, Anthony Cook , Trevor Colliton (WHO?) or Douglas Green (WHO?).

[joshbounds]

I only did the top 20, I will edit the original post for John to downgrade those noname players you listed. But DC isnt any better then Kemp was last season in the draft.. We went with Josh's suggestions..

[joshbounds]

I put together a top 20 the best I could with the information I gathered.. This is a rough draft and we have the 2nd half of the season to firm them up for John... Also, any players that need to be added or dropped please post here..



C - Derrick Coleman B+ C+ C A- B A

PG - Gary Payton B B- A- A C A

SG - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf C+ A- B B D+ B

SG - Dennis Scott B- B+ C+ B+ C A

SG - Kendall Gill B C+ C+ A- C+ B

C - Felton Spencer B- C- C- B B+ C

SF - Lionel Simmons B+ C C A- B B

SG - Bo Kimble C+ C+ C+ B D C

SG - Willie Burton C C+ C+ B- D C

PG - Rumeal Robinson C+ C+ C+ B D C

PF - Tyrone Hill B- C D+ B- B+ A

PF - Jayson Williams B C C A- B+ B

PF - Loy Vaught B- C C B+ B B

C - Elden Campbell B- C D+ A- B B

SF - Toni Kukoc B B C+ B+ B- A

PF - Antonio Davis B C C B B- A

SF - Cedric Ceballos B B C+ B+ C+ A

SG - Dee Brown B- C+ B B D+ B

SF - Terry Mills B- C C B- B- C

SG - A.J. English C+ B B- B- C- C



DELETE LIST
Mario Elie


Downgrade these players below
Anthony Cook , Trevor Colliton, Douglas Green

[ricaug7]

Aug 19, 2009 3:39:36 GMT -6 @joshbounds said:

I only did the top 20, I will edit the original post for John to downgrade those noname players you listed. But DC isnt any better then Kemp was last season in the draft.. We went with Josh's suggestions..

All I'm saying is ITP is creating rookies insanely good considering they have A potential and owners may camp them. It's happening again with this draft class and in my opinion we should do something about it sooner rather than later.

I haven't paid much attention to last season's draft, but just because Kemp was created as a monster should we create DC as a monster? If so, when should it stop?

Felton Spencer is already A defense for example. How realistic is that? He is A potential and may be camped. He will be A+ defense very easily.

If you ask me rookies shouldn't even be created with A- grades. In my book this is what a stud rookie should look like:

Shaquille O'Neal B+ D- C B+ B+ A
Karl Malone B C C B B A
Julius Erving B+ C+ C+ B C A
Michael Jordan B+ B C+ B+ C A
Magic Johnson B- B- B+ B- C+ A


With high A potential and the ability to camp this would probably be how these guys max out:

Shaquille O'Neal A C C A A D
Karl Malone A B C A- A- D
Julius Erving A B+ B- A- B D
Michael Jordan A A- B A B- D
Magic Johnson B+ B+ A+ A- B- D

But it would take them at least 4 or 5 season to get to this point, instead of 1 or 2 seasons (or zero!!) like it is currentely happening in ITP.

I mean look at Tim Hardaway, Glen Rice, Mookie Blaylock or Shawn Kemp for example... THEY ARE ROOKIES!!!

Tim Hardaway PG 23 6'0'' 195 B+ A- A A C B
Glen Rice SF 22 6'8'' 220 B A C+ A- C+ B
Mookie Blaylock PG 22 6'1'' 185 C+ B+ A- A C- B
Shawn Kemp PF 19 6'10'' 245 A- C C A B+ B

And they were not even ELITE (HOF) type of players... *sigh*