Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 11:02:38 GMT -6
Potentially winning a D-League MVP or having a chance shouldn't feel like a massive punishment for 2nd rounders. I mean, what's the point of that?
Gives me a headache just to think that I might need to do weird chart moves to avoid that like slowing down the tempo, move down the player as option, moving to inside offense.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Jan 16, 2023 11:07:15 GMT -6
Winning D-League MVP could be viewed as a punishment for a 1st Round Pick as well. Right? You lose out on multiple years of free improvement.
And at that point not everybody has cash to camp late 1st Round picks.
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hunt54
College Starter
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 16, 2023 11:13:20 GMT -6
Winning D-League MVP could be viewed as a punishment for a 1st Round Pick as well. Right? You lose out on multiple years of free improvement. And at that point not everybody has cash to camp late 1st Round picks. obviously i haven't put in the time i should, but the cash cutoffs mean you have to really be selective on who you want to camp. I wanted to camp 3 "normal" guys and its really set me back. Not a huge fan of it as I went with a younger mix of players out of the draft. Now with another interesting prospect, i may have to trade some of them to get my guys treated right. Should have planned better, but idk how anyone can budget camping second rounders.
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Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 11:24:43 GMT -6
Winning D-League MVP could be viewed as a punishment for a 1st Round Pick as well. Right? You lose out on multiple years of free improvement. And at that point not everybody has cash to camp late 1st Round picks.
It is not the same. A late 1st rounder can win D-League MVP early on and still go to regular camps for a couple of years. If he won D-League MVP that could mean he is worth to spend camps on.
But with 2nd rounders it is different because it is D-League or nothing as it is.
I just don't understand at all why we should make it 2 years for 2nd rounders because they suck when on practice it would only affect 2nd rounders that are miraculously decent enough to spend cash on. On practice you are punishing a gm for picking a too good 2nd rounder. Makes no sense.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Jan 16, 2023 11:50:13 GMT -6
You just ignored what I said about most people not having the cash to camp late 1st rounders. Let alone 2nd rounders.
But who does? Usually highly successful teams. That gain extra cash due to Winning, league awards, all-stars, etc. Giving them an extra avenues to improve their roster.
That creates inequality. The thing about the D-League is everybody can do it. Free of charge. And if your guy wins MVP then so be it. That's the game.
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Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 12:04:30 GMT -6
What is it so wrong about wanting 2nd to have as many camps as 1st rounders? LOL. I have only been here in last 2 iterations so I don't know how it was before but rules were exactly the same for 1st and 2nd rounders when it came to camps.
Now we did a change so older 1st round players could go to camps too. And a side effect it lowered the camps for 2nd rounders.
And you said it makes sense because
Well if you think about it from a realistic standpoint, 1st Round picks have more upside. Whereas 2nd round picks usually step into rotation slots. Make a little contribution. Then slowly fade away within 2 years. So logically it makes sense to allow 1st Round picks double the camps vs 2nd round picks. Because in real life they have 2x the chance of developing.
but then, we agree that no one would spend cash on 2nd round players that are not worth it so 2 or 4 years of camp is the same thing for those players.
So really, 2 or 4 years only affect 2nd round players that happen to be decent and worth camping which is what 2 every 3 season?
So it makes no sense to me why we should make a distinction between 1st and 2nd rounders automatically burning any 2nd rounder that could be a D-League MVP candidate in Season 1 or 2.
Like I said, it feels like a punishment for picking too good of a 2nd rounder. When really we are just talking about a side effect of a rule change.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Jan 16, 2023 12:18:35 GMT -6
Well that's 2 less players that become good. Which achieves the primary purpose - Lowering inflation.
Kong I got a question. If you held on to your 1st Round pick, and drafted Nico Mannion 29th overall. Would we be having this discussion right now?
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Post by yourkers15 on Jan 16, 2023 12:38:56 GMT -6
Well that's 2 less players that become good. Which achieves the primary purpose - Lowering inflation. Kong I got a question. If you held on to your 1st Round pick, and drafted Nico Mannion 29th overall. Would we be having this discussion right now? The problem isn't having good players it was having too many great players. There's nothing wrong with a bunch of good players and having some seconds come into the league and have value would achieve that but the way the league goes only top picks really hold value. I won't huy a late 1st or a second rounder as they wont have any value in my eyes because they usually have terrible builds and no potential. With camps the way they are and people not abusing rules inflation will be kept down and there won't be so much elite talent. Last run around teams had like 4 superstars on a team and Luke Jackson was one of the best scorers. All very unrealistic.
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Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 12:46:48 GMT -6
Kong I got a question. If you held on to your 1st Round pick, and drafted Nico Mannion 29th overall. Would we be having this discussion right now?
I said it before my pick that we should do 4 years. It just doesn't make sense adding extra limitations to 2nd round picks and I feel dumb having to explain this as a non american. And I know you sort of agree with my reasoning because I saw a post of you saying 'add value to 2nd round picks'. 2nd round picks are long shots. So then, why not give some hope that if you get someone decent enough you are not fucked. That's the American dream, lol. Even I as a non american can see that.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Jan 16, 2023 13:01:14 GMT -6
Lol technically it was before you MADE the pick.
But you traded for the pick January 5th
And you posted about about changing the rules...January 5th.
As for me wanting to add value to 2nd round picks. To give a little context, that was during a d-league discussion. In which I suggested only 2nd rounders being D-league eligible. Because I've always found it weird how we make the 19th overall pick the least valuable pick in the 1st Round. It doesn't really apply to this discussion
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Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 14:06:04 GMT -6
Lol technically it was before you MADE the pick. But you traded for the pick January 5th And you posted about about changing the rules...January 5th.
It is the same thing, lol. That #33 pick was a long shot either way. I even offered it for something else before the pick.
My only logic to take away 2 years of camps from 2nd rounds as opposed to 1st rounders is to make created players look more appealing. But honestly, I don't get why we should make created players more appealing.
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Kong
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Post by Kong on Jan 16, 2023 14:14:22 GMT -6
Created players can potentially go to 7 years of d-league plus a year of camp (the postponed one which I don't really agree with if allowed beyond the 4 years of contract) or 4 years of camp. 2nd round picks can go to d-league or 2 years of camp.
We can argue for a week but still there would be no good reason for 2nd rounders to be eligible for less years than 1st rounders or created players.
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Post by John1974 on Jan 17, 2023 16:07:02 GMT -6
Points will still go to potential if a rating is 85. They wont go to the other ratings only carry over to potential, and the charity strip is low enough not to bother me. John we might have a bit of a loophole by allowing attribute points to carryover to potential. Damn near the entire league has HIGH handles. Maxed out handles. So if a guy is 24/ or younger with 85+ handles, you can do 2 handling camps. That +8 handling would turn into +8 Potential correct? Which therefore becomes the same potential camp we just eliminated. It's just a different name. So we might wanna close the loophole before it starts getting exploited. No loop hole here. this is what I want we have nerfed ratings in drafts past creation, we nerfed camping and points carry over to other areas. Ifthey go to potential I dont mind it.
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Post by John1974 on Jan 17, 2023 16:07:36 GMT -6
I have not read anything past the post I just qouted I dont have time today.
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Post by John1974 on Jan 18, 2023 21:22:48 GMT -6
Created players can potentially go to 7 years of d-league plus a year of camp (the postponed one which I don't really agree with if allowed beyond the 4 years of contract) or 4 years of camp. 2nd round picks can go to d-league or 2 years of camp. We can argue for a week but still there would be no good reason for 2nd rounders to be eligible for less years than 1st rounders or created players.
Created players only 4 years not 6 years. Also contract extensions doesn't give extra year of camping anymore since we changed that camp awhile ago.
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Post by John1974 on Jan 18, 2023 21:23:31 GMT -6
And no 2nd rounders shouldn't get 1st round privileges.
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Post by John1974 on Feb 10, 2023 14:49:28 GMT -6
The Following Camp has been added to the list of camps.
"Mentor Camp - $2000 Must have a player on your team that has been an all-star (in the game, real life all star awards do not count) at the same position as the desired camped player (For example if you have an aging PG who was an all-star several years ago and was great at handling, jumpshot, and steals, you can camp a young player to gain ratings in handling, jumpshot, and steals). Excludes Strength/Quickness/Jumping. +12 split evenly between mentor's top 3 ratings. Camped player must never have been to an all-star game. C can mentor PF and vice versa.
MENTOR CAMP BONUS (only one bonus per player for their career) MVP - +2 to inside, jumpshot, and 3 pointer DPOTY - +2 to Post D, Per D, Stealing, and Blocking All League 1st team - +5 potential All League 2nd team - +3 potential All League 3rd team - +1 potential"
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Post by John1974 on Feb 10, 2023 14:52:01 GMT -6
The following camp has been added to the camps list
"Diamond in the rough - $1000 +10 to any rating(s) of your choosing and +5 potential. Can only be used on players drafted in the 2nd round or undrafted players, can be the only camp a player has for this season, and can only be used once in a player's career. (Includes strength/quickness/jumping)"
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Post by Keyser Soze on Feb 10, 2023 15:20:22 GMT -6
The Following Camp has been added to the list of camps. "Mentor Camp - $2000 Must have a player on your team that has been an all-star (in the game, real life all star awards do not count) at the same position as the desired camped player (For example if you have an aging PG who was an all-star several years ago and was great at handling, jumpshot, and steals, you can camp a young player to gain ratings in handling, jumpshot, and steals). Excludes Strength/Quickness/Jumping. +12 split evenly between mentor's top 3 ratings. Camped player must never have been to an all-star game. C can mentor PF and vice versa. MENTOR CAMP BONUS (only one bonus per player for their career) MVP - +2 to inside, jumpshot, and 3 pointer DPOTY - +2 to Post D, Per D, Stealing, and Blocking All League 1st team - +5 potential All League 2nd team - +3 potential All League 3rd team - +1 potential" Just so I understand this correctly. Damon Stoudamire is an all-star. He's now LaMelo Balls Mentor. Damon is best at (excluding quickness) jump shooting, three point shooting, Passing. That means +4 Jumpshot +4 three point shot +4 passing goes to LaMelo? (Another question: there's no altering where points go? It MUST go to the top 3 ratings? What if let's say Ball already has 85 passing - MAX?) Then in the aftermath of using this Mentor Camp. If Damon wins MVP - Lamelo gets +2 inside +2 jumpshot +2 three point shot And then chances are if he wins MVP he's gonna be all league first team. So that's ALSO an additional +5 to potential? And this is a Bonus? That you don't gotta pay for that comes with the $2000 Mentor fee? And that bonus can take into effect at any point after the initial Mentor Camp? Like let's say Damon wins MVP 2 years later?
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Post by yourkers15 on Feb 10, 2023 15:24:17 GMT -6
The Following Camp has been added to the list of camps. "Mentor Camp - $2000 Must have a player on your team that has been an all-star (in the game, real life all star awards do not count) at the same position as the desired camped player (For example if you have an aging PG who was an all-star several years ago and was great at handling, jumpshot, and steals, you can camp a young player to gain ratings in handling, jumpshot, and steals). Excludes Strength/Quickness/Jumping. +12 split evenly between mentor's top 3 ratings. Camped player must never have been to an all-star game. C can mentor PF and vice versa. MENTOR CAMP BONUS (only one bonus per player for their career) MVP - +2 to inside, jumpshot, and 3 pointer DPOTY - +2 to Post D, Per D, Stealing, and Blocking All League 1st team - +5 potential All League 2nd team - +3 potential All League 3rd team - +1 potential" Just so I understand this correctly. Damon Stoudamire is an all-star. He's now LaMelo Balls Mentor. Damon is best at (excluding quickness) jump shooting, three point shooting, Passing. That means +4 Jumpshot +4 three point shot +4 passing goes to LaMelo? (Another question: there's no altering where points go? It MUST go to the top 3 ratings? What if let's say Ball already has 85 passing - MAX?) Then in the aftermath of using this Mentor Camp. If Damon wins MVP - Lamelo gets +2 inside +2 jumpshot +2 three point shot And then chances are if he wins MVP he's gonna be all league first team. So that's ALSO an additional +5 to potential? And this is a Bonus? That you don't gotta pay for that comes with the $2000 Mentor fee? No altering top 3 Only one bonus. So if mvp and first team you choose if you want the mvp bonus or the 1st team bonus. The bonus are free.
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