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Post by John1974 on Feb 16, 2024 12:59:29 GMT -6
Sending fringe players to the D League can be a fun experience. Will they become a role player, quality backup, or even a starting player at the main roster level? This is the way of the D league as many teams have sent players yearly, or just used the D league when they feel it's worth it to their franchise. One thing to keep in mind the MVP could have spent multiple seasons, or just 1 season in the D league as winning the award gives you that automatic push to the main roster. Today we will simply show you every D league MVP and what ratings points they earned in their MVP season.
The first year 2001
MVP: Aleksej Pokusevski (PF)
Ratings: C+, C+, C, A-, B- B
MPG: 38.2
PPG: 28.4
RPG: 24.5
APG: 5.6
SPG: 2.7
BPG: 0.8
TOPG: 5.2
FG %: .519
FT %: .695
3P %: .370
DL Awards
+6 Inside Scoring
+3 Def Rebounding
+5 Blocking
+3 Jump Shot
+6 Potential
+4 Post D
2002
MVP: Theo Maledon (PG)
Ratings: C, A-, B, B+, C-, C
MPG: 40.6
PPG: 32.5
RPG: 10.8
APG: 11.8
SPG: 2.1
BPG: 0.1
TOPG: 3.1
FG %: .514
FT %: .803
3P %: .454
DL Awards
+12 Potential
+5 Inside Scoring
+6 Jump Shot
+5 Three Point Shot
+3 Passing
+1 Steals
2003
MVP: Nico Mannion (PG)
Ratings: C, A, C+, A-, C- B
MPG: 41.3
PPG: 31.4
RPG: 10.7
APG: 9.1
SPG: 3.1
BPG: 0.0
TOPG: 2.5
FG %: .508
FT %: .862
3P %: .461
DL Awards
+9 Potential
+6 Jump Shot
+3 Assists
+2 Stealing
+6 3 Pt Shot
+1 offensive, +1 defensive rating
+2 Perimeter Defense
2004
MVP: Karlton Hines (C)
Ratings: B, C-, C, A-, A-, B
MPG: 39.6
PPG: 44.9
RPG: 24.9
APG: 4.8
SPG: 1.3
BPG: 1.2
TOPG: 4.1
FG %: .580
FT %: .599
3P %: .227
DL Awards
+9 Potential
+10 Inside Scoring
+3 Jumpshot
+5 Blocks
+3 Offensive Rebounding
2005
MVP: Anthony Soprano
Ratings: B-, C-, D+, A-, A-, D
MPG: 36.9
PPG: 29.0
RPG: 26.1
APG: 4.3
SPG: 2.3
BPG: 1.8
TOPG: 3.1
FG %: .535
FT %: .592
3P %: .150
DL Awards
+6 Inside Scoring
+3 Jump Shot
+3 D Rebounding
+3 Blocking
+1 Post D
+4 Potential
+2 Strength
Every player on this list except one has turned into a starting caliber player. Nico Mannion is the only player who never really got going as a starter but did prove to be a solid backup for a a few seasons, but his spotlight has since faded out. The others are still starting in the 2011 season.
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Post by New York Knicks on Feb 16, 2024 13:19:49 GMT -6
And the 2001 MVP just got traded for the 2002 MVP
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jupee
College Starter
Posts: 1,903
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Post by jupee on Feb 16, 2024 14:23:22 GMT -6
And the 2001 MVP just got traded for the 2002 MVP Maybe 2003 will get traded for 2004..... naaaaaaaah |
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Post by beatonz on Feb 16, 2024 16:11:08 GMT -6
$250
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Post by beatonz on Feb 16, 2024 16:19:08 GMT -6
Nice recap. I really like the D League and for the most part try to take advantage of it.
I think the quality of players coming out of the D League is honestly too high, which is saying something coming from someone with two players on the MVP list above and another one in Traylor last season. I think the reward system is good the way it is, but when you can camp the players in D League as well they can get way to good way to fast. Again, I admit, I take advantage of this.
What this does though is makes picks in the 20-25 range so much more valuable than picks 10-20. Arguably more valuable then pick 5-10 as well (obviously dependent on the draft class).
It was only in this iteration of ITP, from what I can remember, that you were allowed to camp D League players and in turn the number of D League players becoming stars had sky rocketed. I don't think there is any need for change now, in fact I wouldn't support this change now, but in future iterations I would propose we remove the option to send players to the D League and be able to camp them. This will still allow later picks to grow in the D League but levels out the amount they are growing each season.
So it becomes a tougher choice, do I 1) send my 20th pick to the D League in hopes he performs well and develops extra at no cost ($$$ cash)or 2) camp my 20th pick to ensure he develops with camps?
This may be an unpopular opinion, but just a thought.
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Post by John1974 on Feb 16, 2024 17:31:04 GMT -6
Nice recap. I really like the D League and for the most part try to take advantage of it. I think the quality of players coming out of the D League is honestly too high, which is saying something coming from someone with two players on the MVP list above and another one in Traylor last season. I think the reward system is good the way it is, but when you can camp the players in D League as well they can get way to good way to fast. Again, I admit, I take advantage of this. What this does though is makes picks in the 20-25 range so much more valuable than picks 10-20. Arguably more valuable then pick 5-10 as well (obviously dependent on the draft class). It was only in this iteration of ITP, from what I can remember, that you were allowed to camp D League players and in turn the number of D League players becoming stars had sky rocketed. I don't think there is any need for change now, in fact I wouldn't support this change now, but in future iterations I would propose we remove the option to send players to the D League and be able to camp them. This will still allow later picks to grow in the D League but levels out the amount they are growing each season. So it becomes a tougher choice, do I 1) send my 20th pick to the D League in hopes he performs well and develops extra at no cost ($$$ cash)or 2) camp my 20th pick to ensure he develops with camps? This may be an unpopular opinion, but just a thought. Actually it's been nerfed with created players not allowed camping while in D League a season ago. |
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Post by beatonz on Feb 16, 2024 17:36:16 GMT -6
Nice recap. I really like the D League and for the most part try to take advantage of it. I think the quality of players coming out of the D League is honestly too high, which is saying something coming from someone with two players on the MVP list above and another one in Traylor last season. I think the reward system is good the way it is, but when you can camp the players in D League as well they can get way to good way to fast. Again, I admit, I take advantage of this. What this does though is makes picks in the 20-25 range so much more valuable than picks 10-20. Arguably more valuable then pick 5-10 as well (obviously dependent on the draft class). It was only in this iteration of ITP, from what I can remember, that you were allowed to camp D League players and in turn the number of D League players becoming stars had sky rocketed. I don't think there is any need for change now, in fact I wouldn't support this change now, but in future iterations I would propose we remove the option to send players to the D League and be able to camp them. This will still allow later picks to grow in the D League but levels out the amount they are growing each season. So it becomes a tougher choice, do I 1) send my 20th pick to the D League in hopes he performs well and develops extra at no cost ($$$ cash)or 2) camp my 20th pick to ensure he develops with camps? This may be an unpopular opinion, but just a thought. Actually it's been nerfed with created players not allowed camping while in D League a season ago. Agreed, but what I am talking about is any player in the D League, not just created players. |
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Post by John1974 on Feb 16, 2024 17:51:14 GMT -6
Actually it's been nerfed with created players not allowed camping while in D League a season ago. Agreed, but what I am talking about is any player in the D League, not just created players. Those players rarely turn out due to lower potential. So I'm good with that, and created players winter be much issue from d league anymore |
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,611
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Post by Kong on Feb 16, 2024 18:01:48 GMT -6
Agreed, but what I am talking about is any player in the D League, not just created players. Those players rarely turn out due to lower potential. So I'm good with that, and created players winter be much issue from d league anymore
It is the first rounders that is the problem. What I said in insidethepaint.proboards.com/post/362618. Those players can have high potential and there is usually 1-3 players with a high B or a low A late potential in the first rounders. Right now, you even got Koponen that is in the 90+ range (who got there via TC but needed at least a certain potential to begin with or else that wouldn't have happened). |
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Post by beatonz on Feb 16, 2024 18:09:35 GMT -6
Those players rarely turn out due to lower potential. So I'm good with that, and created players winter be much issue from d league anymore
It is the first rounders that is the problem. What I said in insidethepaint.proboards.com/post/362618. Those players can have high potential and there is usually 1-3 players with a high B or a low A late potential in the first rounders. Right now, you even got Koponen that is in the 90+ range (who got there via TC but needed at least a certain potential to begin with or else that wouldn't have happened). I don't even necessarily consider it a problem other than the value of picks 10-19 is lower than a pick in the 20s. |
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,611
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Post by Kong on Feb 16, 2024 18:13:44 GMT -6
but take the Maledon case for example. D League MVP in the 2nd Season.
He was a league MVP later on and did not go to camps in the first 2 Seasons. Imagine how much better he would be with the extra 20 points or more with mentor camp or whatever.
Or ask yourself if Koponen now for example really needs to get the D-League points and camps.
It just seems a bit much. I mean, you say late 1sts are better than 10-19 but in some cases it could be better than even after 5 honestly. Or even not the 2-3 guys that are in the best in each draft.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,611
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Post by Kong on Feb 16, 2024 18:21:48 GMT -6
I do agree though that with created players it could get worse if they had TC luck as in Chris Hawkins being better than Kareem.
One half way improvement I think would be to allow camps on D-Leaguers after pick 25.
So, then you have 3 categories:
Range 20-24 can go to D-League.
Range 25-29 can go to D-League and camps.
Range 30+ can go to D-League and camps (including 2nd round camps).
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Post by New York Knicks on Feb 16, 2024 19:43:23 GMT -6
but take the Maledon case for example. D League MVP in the 2nd Season. He was a league MVP later on and did not go to camps in the first 2 Seasons. Imagine how much better he would be with the extra 20 points or more with mentor camp or whatever. Or ask yourself if Koponen now for example really needs to get the D-League points and camps. It just seems a bit much. I mean, you say late 1sts are better than 10-19 but in some cases it could be better than even after 5 honestly. Or even not the 2-3 guys that are in the best in each draft.
Kong. You're missing what's right in front of you. It's like, God forbid, your house is on fire. Then you turn around, look at your refrigerator, and say "damn, the ice cubes are gonna melt". Yeah that does suck. Maybe you planned on having a cold sprite that night. But wouldn't you say there's a much greater problem at hand? Like the fact that your house is on fire? (God Forbid again) That's the problem here. The Dleague is on fucking fire. The whole damn system is fucked. You just bought up Theo Maledon. Well look at those numbers from Johns post: Add that up, And you know what you have? +32 points+32 Motherfucking points in 1 single season. Let's put that in context. A regular camp gives you +4 points. This is 8x that. Essentially 8 free camps on 1 player in 1 season. That's insane. But it doesn't stop there. When you do regular camps, there's an 85 rating limit. In the Dleague there are no limits.
These are the real problems that exist. And the solutions you're offering is basically like getting a portable cooler for those melting ice cubes. It solves part of the problem. A real small part of the problem. You wanna solve the real problem? 1) 100% agree. Get rid of all camps for DLeaguers. 2nd round picks included. Because if you go to Smooths article. You'll see you can turn 2nd round picks (Jelani McCoy) into better players than #2 overall picks (Dirk Nowitzki). 2) And how can you do that? With that sexyass diamond in the rough camp. +10 improvement to any rating AND +5 Potential for a $1000? That's too good of a deal. Which is why I say get rid it. 3) The players can't be camped. Now what? You send them to the Dleague. What happens there? You kill this +32 point shit. And it's real simple. You cap the rating improvement to +10 points. Doesn't matter if he earns 30 points. 40 points. You can only use +10 of them. Why +10? Because we turn the Dleague into an option. Either: A) Spend your money. You do 2 regular camps + 1 focus camps = 10 points of improvement B) Save your money. Send him to the Dleague. But the most you can get = 10 points of improvement. That way it's as equal and fair as humanly possible. 4) I left out the mentor camp. Because honestly this was a horrible idea. Initially I thought it was pretty cool. But the result of it is the equivalent of introducing nuclear weapons into an arms race. We're all trying to keep up with eachother. So we're all going with the flow. But +17 (all 1st Team Bonus), +18 (MVP bonus), +20 (DPOTY bonus). That's a fucking nuclear disaster. And it leads to the devastation of inflation. 5) And enforce the 85 point limit all the time. In the Dleague included. Not 100% sure on the exact wording of these next two. These are rough draft ideas. 6) Get rid of the age limit. Instead make it 3 years of Dleague experience. So guys can't be there for 6-7 seasons. Besides what's the harm of a 24 year old rookie being able to go to the Dleague? Why does he get treated like he has small pox? 7) I never understood why just the MVP gets singled out. It's almost like a curse. +3 points or an extra year of Dleague eligibility? That's a shitty trade off. How bout the entire all league 1st Team gets called up?...or just eliminate the auto call up. 3 years eligibility then finito. That's what I would do. We're a little too deep into the game right now. But for the next restart, those would be my suggestions. |
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Post by beatonz on Feb 16, 2024 20:22:05 GMT -6
but take the Maledon case for example. D League MVP in the 2nd Season. He was a league MVP later on and did not go to camps in the first 2 Seasons. Imagine how much better he would be with the extra 20 points or more with mentor camp or whatever. Or ask yourself if Koponen now for example really needs to get the D-League points and camps. It just seems a bit much. I mean, you say late 1sts are better than 10-19 but in some cases it could be better than even after 5 honestly. Or even not the 2-3 guys that are in the best in each draft.
Kong. You're missing what's right in front of you. It's like, God forbid, your house is on fire. Then you turn around, look at your refrigerator, and say "damn, the ice cubes are gonna melt". Yeah that does suck. Maybe you planned on having a cold sprite that night. But wouldn't you say there's a much greater problem at hand? Like the fact that your house is on fire? (God Forbid again) That's the problem here. The Dleague is on fucking fire. The whole damn system is fucked. You just bought up Theo Maledon. Well look at those numbers from Johns post: Add that up, And you know what you have? +32 points+32 Motherfucking points in 1 single season. Let's put that in context. A regular camp gives you +4 points. This is 8x that. Essentially 8 free camps on 1 player in 1 season. That's insane. But it doesn't stop there. When you do regular camps, there's an 85 rating limit. In the Dleague there are no limits. So not only are you getting an excessive amount of improvement points. You can improve your player into the 90s. Into the damn 100s. I never understood that. Why have a limit if you're not gonna enforce it all the time?
These are the real problems that exist. And the solutions you're offering is basically like getting a portable cooler for those melting ice cubes. It solves part of the problem. A real small part of the problem. You wanna solve the real problem? 1) 100% agree. Get rid of all camps for DLeaguers. 2nd round picks included. Because if you go to Smooths article. You'll see you can turn 2nd round picks (Jelani McCoy) into better players than #2 overall picks (Dirk Nowitzki). 2) And how can you do that? With that sexyass diamond in the rough camp. +10 improvement to any rating AND +5 Potential for a $1000? That's too good of a deal. Which is why I say get rid of that thing too. 3) The players can't be camped. Now what? You send them to the Dleague. What happens there? You kill this +32 point shit. And it's real simple. You cap the rating improvement to +10 points. Doesn't matter if he earns 30points. 40 points. You can only use +10 of them. Why +10? Because we turn the Dleague into an option. Either: A) You have money to spend. So you dont need the Dleague. You do 2 regular camps + 1 focus camps = 10 points of improvement B) You don't have money to spend on this late 1st/2nd round pick. So you have this beautiful alternative of sending him to the D-League instead. But, it's nomore than +10 improvement that can be achieved. 4) I left out the mentor camp. Because honestly this was a horrible idea. Initially I thought it was pretty cool. But the result of it is the equivalent of introducing nuclear weapons into an arms race. We're all trying to keep up with eachother. So we're all going with the flow. But +17 (all 1st Team Bonus), +18 (MVP bonus), +20 (DPOTY bonus). That's a fucking disaster. That's more double two regular camps. And it leads to the disaster of inflation. 5) And enforce the 85 point limit all the time. In the Dleague included. 6) Get rid of the age limit. Instead make it 3 years of Dleague experience. So guys can't be there for 6-7 seasons. Besides what's the harm of a 24 year old rookie being able to go to the Dleague? Why does he get treated like he has small pox? 7) I never understood why just the MVP gets singled out. It's almost like a curse. +3 points or an extra year of Dleague eligibility? That's a shitty trade off. How bout the entire all league 1st Team gets called up?...or just eliminate the auto call up. 3 years eligibility then finito. That's what I would do. We're a little too deep into the game right now. But for the next restart, those would be my suggestions. I can get behind this. All makes sense. Also agreed that I don’t want to change it now. Just something to consider for the next iteration. |
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Post by beatonz on Feb 18, 2024 14:29:03 GMT -6
$250
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