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Post by John1974 on Sept 23, 2009 9:13:42 GMT -6
Remember we dont want to make these guys superstars, just improve the ones that need it leave the ones that dont alone or lower. Let spending, Training camp decide the players fate.
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josh
2nd Rounder
1979 ITP Champs
Posts: 2,730
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Post by josh on Sept 23, 2009 10:21:30 GMT -6
I'll try to take a close look soon and post some thoughts, 1991 was a really fun class, though very top heavy in terms of talent. After the first 12-15 guys, there's not much there.
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Post by John1974 on Sept 23, 2009 10:23:16 GMT -6
I'll try to take a close look soon and post some thoughts, 1991 was a really fun class, though very top heavy in terms of talent. After the first 12-15 guys, there's not much there. Yep. I only looked real quick I did see Steve Smith needs to be improved. |
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Post by jgray78 on Sept 23, 2009 11:11:10 GMT -6
Not knowing exactly how FBB does it's growth but doesn't Rick Fox seem a little weak? While not a big time scorer throughout his career he did have multiple double digit scoring seasons and stayed near 50% FG for most of his career.
I guess I thought his potential would be a bit higher, not much but a bit. I could be wrong though because like I said I don't know much about how FBB handles progressions and how the letter rankings translate into production over the course of time. What would worry me is that he was a somewhat solid player and with a C in potential could fall in his current rankings couldn't he?
I'll continue looking and giving my half wit opinions though.
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josh
2nd Rounder
1979 ITP Champs
Posts: 2,730
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Post by josh on Sept 23, 2009 12:09:27 GMT -6
I'll try to take a close look soon and post some thoughts, 1991 was a really fun class, though very top heavy in terms of talent. After the first 12-15 guys, there's not much there. Yep. I only looked real quick I did see Steve Smith needs to be improved. Hahahaha yeah that stuck out to me too. |
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Post by John1974 on Sept 28, 2009 18:33:25 GMT -6
bump!
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 28, 2009 21:45:30 GMT -6
Why is Dikembe starting with a B+ inside when he was never much of an offensive player? (Scored above 14 PPG in a season once in his 18 year career).
But whats the point the draft class is gonna be inflated again anyways.
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josh
2nd Rounder
1979 ITP Champs
Posts: 2,730
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Post by josh on Sept 30, 2009 13:54:28 GMT -6
Alright...Some thoughts...
Dikembe Mutombo: B+ inside is too high. Dikembe averaged 11.5 points per 36 for his career, though he was more of a scorer earlier in his career. I think Dikembe should have B- inside, and also C- outside. He was a 69% FT shooter for his career, very respectable for a big man. I think his defense is right on the money, but I think we could lower his rebounding to a high B+. I wouldn't mind if he had A- rebounding after TC, but with camps and player spending, Dikembe will be at worst an A+ defender and an A- rebounder, which is accurate in my mind. Overall: B- C- C- A B+ B
Larry Johnson: A- inside is probably a little too high to start, his career high ppg average was 22.1, but he only averaged over 20ppg one other time in his career. LJ was however a pretty good 3pt shooter, with a 33% career average from behind the arc, so C+ outside makes sense to me. I'd also start LJ with B- defense, as he was never a rock solid guy on defense, and I think B+ rebounding is a little generous as well, as after his first two years, he never averaged over 9rpg. Overall: B+ C+ C B- B A
Steve Smith: A great player overall, tremendous shooter and good scorer in his prime and an OK on ball defender. I think for Smith, a good starting point offensively would be B- inside, B+ outside, with good handling and decent defense. Overall: B- B+ C+ B- C- A
Terrell Brandon: One of the best PGs in the game in his time, solid offensively, defensively and a great ball handler. TB needs B- inside to start, and his outside scoring could be a C+, as he was a decent 3pt shooter and a good FT shooter. I think he could have a low A- handling grade to start, but I think we need to lower his defense to an A-. D+ rebounding also seems in order for TB. Overall: B- C+ A- A- D+ A
Dale Davis: Good defender, great rebounder, average scorer. Davis averaged 10 rebounds per 36 minutes in 10 of his first 11 seasons. I think that B- inside is a good start for Davis, and he wasn't a great FT shooter so D+ outside is OK. D handling is way too low for Davis though, as he averaged just 1 TO per game for his entire career. C-/C handling would be good for him, as 1 TO is amazing for a big man. I think that his defense and rebounding ratings are good as is, as long as his B+ defense is a high B+. Overall: B- D+ C B+ B+ A
Chris Gatling: A machine offensively. Per 36 averages of 19 points and 10 rebounds, and if he had been able to stay healthy, he would have been an all star multiple times. Gatling's inside grade needs to come up, probably to a B+ inside, with a C- outside and C- handling. His defense needs to go down a bit as he was good, not great, so a B+ defense should work. B rebounding is OK with me. Overall: B+ C- C- B+ B B
Kenny Anderson: Second best PG in the class behind TB, and he's not that far behind. Good scorer in his prime, decent outside guy, great passer and defender. Inside scoring could be a high C+ to start, along with high C+ outside, high B+ handling and A- defense. C- rebounding is also a little high, as he averaged just 3rpg. Overall: (all high end ratings) C+ C+ B+ A- D+ A
Eric Murdock: A much better player than advertised. Career per 36 averages of 15.5 points, 7.5 assists and 2.5 steals. Murdock was an explosive scorer and a good passer, but was TO prone. I'd say Murdock's inside scoring could be a low B with C+ outside scoring, B handling and B+ defense (all perimeter and stealing). I like Murdock as a bit of a project with good potential. Overall: B C+ B B+ C- A
Billy Owens: A bit overrated as it is now...B inside is OK, as he averaged 14.5 points per 36 minutes. C- outside and C handling are good, but his defense and rebounding are too high based on his career performance. Overall: B C- C B B- A
Greg Anthony: Good outside shooter, great defender, pretty good passer. C inside is OK to start, but his outside could be a high B- or a low B. B+ handling is an OK starting point, but I would bump his defense up to an A- from the jump. He was a great defender his whole career. D+ rebounding is a little generous as well...I'd look at starting Anthony with higher grades and lower potential. Overall: C B B+ A- D B
Robert Pack: Huge talent, but couldn't hold onto the ball or stay healthy. Could score in bunches but was a slasher, not a shooter. 8 assists per 36, but 4 TOs as well, good defender, averaged 2 steals per 36 in his career. Pack is another guy that I would recommend higher starting ratings and lower potential. Overall: B C B A- D C
Stacey Augmon: This guy burst onto the scene and had a great first 5 years in the league, averaging 16.5 points per 36 those first 5 years. He also averaged 5.5 rebounds and 1.8 steals those years, but injuries killed off any chance of stardom. Augmon is another guy that should come in ready to play with lower potential, giving a team an immediate option with a 5-6 year shelf life. Overall: B+ C C A- C C
Luc Longley: Probably didn't get enough credit for his career, averaging 12.3 points, 8.4 rebounds and 1.6 blocks per 36 minutes. I think Luc should start with B- inside, and I think his handling should come up, defense should go down a bit and his rebounding should come up a tad. Overall: B- C- C- B+ B B
Stanley Roberts: Had an injury plagued and short career, but while he was playing, he was SOLID. 15.7 points, 9.5 rebounds and 2.5 blocks per 36 minutes for his career, shooting 50% from the field. I don't think he should quite where he is now, but his ratings aren't that far off...I think the inside and rebounding ratings could come down to Bs, but everything else looks close. Overall: B D D A- B C
Doug Smith: Drafted 6th overall, an enigma, another injury plagued guy, averaged 14.5 points and 7.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, but only played 5 seasons. At PF, he could be an immediate impact guy with low potential, a possibly mid-late first rounder. Overall: B C- C- B- B- C
Rick Fox: A good player in his own right, averaging 13.6 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists per 36 minutes along with 1.5 steals. A good role player with a long career. I like most of his ratings, but I think his outside rating should be higher, probably a B. I also think Fox should have C+ handling, as he was a good assist man during his career. Overall: C+ B C+ A- C B
David Benoit: Decent role player, could score some and rebound some as well. 13.4 points and 7.7 rebounds per 36 for his career, a very good FT shooter (80% career), but didn't do much else. Overall: B- C D+ B- B- C
Bison Dele: A solid player that had a shortish career, but had really nice per 36 averages when he was playing. He should have the chance for a nice productive ITP career without being superhuman. Overall: B- C- D+ B+ B B
The other guys in the class look OK, so hopefully this is a good look at how this class may turn out. I think there is a nice mix of guys with slightly lower ratings and good potential and guys that are properly rated with lower potential...
Thoughts?
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Post by gritter13 on Sept 30, 2009 15:58:52 GMT -6
Great job Josh, but one thing, Brian Williams is not a fake player. He was taken 10th out of Arizona. He's the guy that changed his name to Bison Dele. He retired early in his career, then his brother killed him a few years ago before committing suicide himself. It's a crazy story.
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josh
2nd Rounder
1979 ITP Champs
Posts: 2,730
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Post by josh on Sept 30, 2009 16:32:54 GMT -6
Great job Josh, but one thing, Brian Williams is not a fake player. He was taken 10th out of Arizona. He's the guy that changed his name to Bison Dele. He retired early in his career, then his brother killed him a few years ago before committing suicide himself. It's a crazy story. OOOOHHHHHH YEEEAAAAAHHHHH I totally forgot about that...Good call, and we'll need to tone down his ratings a bit. |
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Post by don1955 on Sept 30, 2009 16:34:15 GMT -6
yeah williams/dele was a decent player, he just didnt put basketball as the forefront most important thing to him...some think he was a little weird...yep he got his boat an went to sailing around everywhere until he picked up his brother and was killed, sad....
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Post by yourkers15 on Sept 30, 2009 18:56:01 GMT -6
I like them, I never think someone should never start out good unless they were like that for most of their careers. Just like Next year should be interesting as Shaq and Zo will make for some high ratings. I just no one has a problem when they are made that way, because they dominated their whole careers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2009 22:23:57 GMT -6
I like them, I never think someone should never start out good unless they were like that for most of their careers. Just like Next year should be interesting as Shaq and Zo will make for some high ratings. I just no one has a problem when they are made that way, because they dominated their whole careers.  |
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josh
2nd Rounder
1979 ITP Champs
Posts: 2,730
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Post by josh on Oct 4, 2009 15:10:05 GMT -6
I'm bumping this to see if John has any thoughts on it...
The only things I might change from my original ratings would be giving Stanley Roberts a C potential and making Terrell Brandon a C+ outside.
Also, I would make Bison Dele look something like: B- C- D+ B+ B B
He was a solid player that had a shortish career, but had really nice per 36 averages when he was playing. The ratings above give him the shot at a nice productive ITP career without being superhuman.
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