hunt54
College Starter
Posts: 1,613
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Post by hunt54 on Dec 2, 2022 21:36:18 GMT -6
Points will still go to potential if a rating is 85. They wont go to the other ratings only carry over to potential, and the charity strip is low enough not to bother me. John we might have a bit of a loophole by allowing attribute points to carryover to potential. Damn near the entire league has HIGH handles. Maxed out handles. So if a guy is 24/ or younger with 85+ handles, you can do 2 handling camps. That +8 handling would turn into +8 Potential correct? Which therefore becomes the same potential camp we just eliminated. It's just a different name. So we might wanna close the loophole before it starts getting exploited. I don’t think 8 potential is a problem. The carry over to other attributes was a bigger deal. But that might be me
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 2, 2022 21:43:04 GMT -6
I think I am the only one that liked ITP 7 combos. But yeah, I got Embiid 20 potential points. That wont happen here either way.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Dec 2, 2022 22:01:08 GMT -6
John we might have a bit of a loophole by allowing attribute points to carryover to potential. Damn near the entire league has HIGH handles. Maxed out handles. So if a guy is 24/ or younger with 85+ handles, you can do 2 handling camps. That +8 handling would turn into +8 Potential correct? Which therefore becomes the same potential camp we just eliminated. It's just a different name. So we might wanna close the loophole before it starts getting exploited. I don’t think 8 potential is a problem. The carry over to other attributes was a bigger deal. But that might be me Carryover to other ratings didn't seem like a problem at first. You had a guy with high jump ratings. And instead of +2 Jumping +2 Inside Scoring, it became +4 Inside. Big deal. Who cares right? But then you had a guy that went up +12 inside scoring in a single camp. You crack the door open a little bit, and the flood will come. There's some guys with high handles AND high jumping. +8 potential this year with the handling camp +4 next year with a jumpshot camp Then you got focus camps. the layup drill. Guys with high jumps and inside would get +2 Potential each time. So that's another +4 Now its +16 Potential over the course of two seasons. You see? Slowly it will become a problem.
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Post by beatonz on Dec 2, 2022 22:06:06 GMT -6
We should just eliminate the carry over all together.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 2, 2022 22:07:50 GMT -6
The reason why I liked the old itp7 system is because it gave more value to ratings that I am not sure if they matter but they probably matter less than others. So, in order to get bonuses like good ones you needed really high ratings in categories no one likes so it was like justice in the world, lol. That's how I got Embiid those 20 pot points. With justice to all those 5s that he had. At least, that's how I like to imagine it, lololol. But I did it for PopeMattythe1st and he never came back. I miss you Poop.
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hunt54
College Starter
Posts: 1,613
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Post by hunt54 on Dec 3, 2022 0:30:38 GMT -6
I don’t think 8 potential is a problem. The carry over to other attributes was a bigger deal. But that might be me Carryover to other ratings didn't seem like a problem at first. You had a guy with high jump ratings. And instead of +2 Jumping +2 Inside Scoring, it became +4 Inside. Big deal. Who cares right? But then you had a guy that went up +12 inside scoring in a single camp. You crack the door open a little bit, and the flood will come. There's some guys with high handles AND high jumping. +8 potential this year with the handling camp +4 next year with a jumpshot camp Then you got focus camps. the layup drill. Guys with high jumps and inside would get +2 Potential each time. So that's another +4 Now its +16 Potential over the course of two seasons. You see? Slowly it will become a problem. i don't think +16 potential is as much of the problem as +16 jumpshot or +16 inside. I say we let it ride and if people are doing that intentionally I have 2 thoughts. 1. they are dumb (unless your player is already old af its not worth it imo.) 2. we make a rule that anything thats already maxed cant be camped, but if a camp would max it then it would roll over. I also would advocate for super camp not having the 85 limits but thats just me.
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hunt54
College Starter
Posts: 1,613
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Post by hunt54 on Dec 3, 2022 0:36:20 GMT -6
Carryover to other ratings didn't seem like a problem at first. You had a guy with high jump ratings. And instead of +2 Jumping +2 Inside Scoring, it became +4 Inside. Big deal. Who cares right? But then you had a guy that went up +12 inside scoring in a single camp. You crack the door open a little bit, and the flood will come. There's some guys with high handles AND high jumping. +8 potential this year with the handling camp +4 next year with a jumpshot camp Then you got focus camps. the layup drill. Guys with high jumps and inside would get +2 Potential each time. So that's another +4 Now its +16 Potential over the course of two seasons. You see? Slowly it will become a problem. i don't think +16 potential is as much of the problem as +16 jumpshot or +16 inside. I say we let it ride and if people are doing that intentionally I have 2 thoughts. 1. they are dumb (unless your player is already old af its not worth it imo.) 2. we make a rule that anything thats already maxed cant be camped, but if a camp would max it then it would roll over. I also would advocate for super camp not having the 85 limits but thats just me. if something is already maxed you turn it into half price ie a player i have has 85 stealing. but terrible perimeter D and has already beenn to pylos and pereimeter D camp. SO I send him to Theif camp 2 times and only pay $500 but it counts for both camps this year. I also think john made it with "or" on a lot of camps. That should be fine to roll over/ force you to camp instead of rolling it over to potential automatically.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Dec 3, 2022 0:51:20 GMT -6
Carryover to other ratings didn't seem like a problem at first. You had a guy with high jump ratings. And instead of +2 Jumping +2 Inside Scoring, it became +4 Inside. Big deal. Who cares right? But then you had a guy that went up +12 inside scoring in a single camp. You crack the door open a little bit, and the flood will come. There's some guys with high handles AND high jumping. +8 potential this year with the handling camp +4 next year with a jumpshot camp Then you got focus camps. the layup drill. Guys with high jumps and inside would get +2 Potential each time. So that's another +4 Now its +16 Potential over the course of two seasons. You see? Slowly it will become a problem. i don't think +16 potential is as much of the problem as +16 jumpshot or +16 inside. I say we let it ride and if people are doing that intentionally I have 2 thoughts. 1. they are dumb (unless your player is already old af its not worth it imo.) 2. we make a rule that anything thats already maxed cant be camped, but if a camp would max it then it would roll over. I also would advocate for super camp not having the 85 limits but thats just me. Not necessarily. Think about it. You've got some early 20 year old dudes from the 70s that are GREAT. And whatever regular camps you give them are gonna have a very minimal effect. Your best chance of improving those players, is them improving themselves. Meaning TC. Meaning Potential. Now alot of these guys have mid 50s Potential. You pump them up into the 70s, their chances of a big TC dramatically increases. Now that 85 turns into a 93. That 87 turns into a 95. And now you got a SUPERSTAR, that NOBODY is catching up to. Not the other "new school" prospects we drafted. Not the prospects from future classes. NOBODY. So it's not "dumb" imo. Especially if you use it on the right player. And there's quite a few players out there that can really take advantage of this current system.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 3, 2022 1:08:39 GMT -6
New school players wouldn't apply for some potential points now but they would still have the edge long term speaking at least when it comes to guards or scorers in general because none of the guys from the 80s shoot 3s and potential wont fix that. There is nothing you can do with a 5-11 3 pointer and that is important in league that will be outside driven in 2-3 Seasons from now.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 3, 2022 1:20:44 GMT -6
Guys that could have some edge maybe are bigs because they can be good without 3 pointer but then the discussion would be different because they have a lower upper bound for handling. 75 handling for C, 80 handling. So, in those cases would you allow the points to move at those lower bounds or not?
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Post by Keyser Soze on Dec 3, 2022 1:24:48 GMT -6
New school players wouldn't apply for some potential points now but they would still have the edge long term speaking at least when it comes to guards or scorers in general because none of the guys from the 80s shoot 3s and potential wont fix that. There is nothing you can do with a 5-11 3 pointer and that is important in league that will be outside driven in 2-3 Seasons from now. Look back at ITP6 history when we last started with 70s players. 3 seasons after year 1. John Drew was leading the league in scoring. Sonics won the title with a predominately inside focused roster. Guys with high inside scoring And jumpshot will get BUCKETS (EVEN WITHOUT THE 3PT SHOT). The Kenons of this league will not turn into frogs at midnight. They will prosper for a very long time.
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hooper
2nd Rounder
Celtics
Posts: 3,602
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Post by hooper on Dec 3, 2022 13:55:37 GMT -6
John1974Can I request a change to some of the camps? Very minor but makes sense IMO Inside Offense Camp +2 Inside Scoring +2 to Strength or Quickness Pick and Roll camp +2 Inside +2 Quickness, or Passing These two camps are too much alike, IMO There are two ways to get inside scoring and quickness in the same camp, but there aren't any ways to get either jumpshot or 3 point shot and quickness in the same camp Suggestion:
Change Pick and Roll Camp from +2 Inside to +2 Jumpshot
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clb8181
College Starter
Posts: 2,176
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Post by clb8181 on Dec 3, 2022 13:56:24 GMT -6
Am I the only one that thinks 6 proxy camps is ridiculous? Especially at the beginning of the league?
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hunt54
College Starter
Posts: 1,613
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Post by hunt54 on Dec 3, 2022 13:57:51 GMT -6
i don't think +16 potential is as much of the problem as +16 jumpshot or +16 inside. I say we let it ride and if people are doing that intentionally I have 2 thoughts. 1. they are dumb (unless your player is already old af its not worth it imo.) 2. we make a rule that anything thats already maxed cant be camped, but if a camp would max it then it would roll over. I also would advocate for super camp not having the 85 limits but thats just me. Not necessarily. Think about it. You've got some early 20 year old dudes from the 70s that are GREAT. And whatever regular camps you give them are gonna have a very minimal effect. Your best chance of improving those players, is them improving themselves. Meaning TC. Meaning Potential. Now alot of these guys have mid 50s Potential. You pump them up into the 70s, their chances of a big TC dramatically increases. Now that 85 turns into a 93. That 87 turns into a 95. And now you got a SUPERSTAR, that NOBODY is catching up to. Not the other "new school" prospects we drafted. Not the prospects from future classes. NOBODY. So it's not "dumb" imo. Especially if you use it on the right player. And there's quite a few players out there that can really take advantage of this current system. i don't think the bump from 55ish to 75ish is that dramatic for potential and its a hell of a gamble imo. I disagree that 4 potential is better than 4 inside/strength/jumpshot etc because they could improve in random stats that don't matter to that players position or playstyle . But if you feel that multiple players/gms are gonna "abuse" it, then i'll play whatever game john says we are playing lol.
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 3, 2022 14:04:45 GMT -6
Am I the only one that thinks 6 proxy camps is ridiculous? Especially at the beginning of the league?
I sort of feel the same way honestly, lol. Last time we didn't do as much proxy to begin with and also proxy teams didn't do as much as camping. It was sid and don't remember who else. And Sid traded the whole team for picks so there wasn't much to camp, lol.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Dec 3, 2022 14:15:15 GMT -6
Am I the only one that thinks 6 proxy camps is ridiculous? Especially at the beginning of the league? I sort of feel the same way honestly, lol. Last time we didn't do as much proxy to begin with and also proxy teams didn't do as much as camping. It was sid and don't remember who else. And Sid traded the whole team for picks so there wasn't much to camp, lol.
Yeah and then that one guy came along and did $11,000 of free proxy camps in a single season. Remember him?
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 3, 2022 14:19:01 GMT -6
Yes. With a team that had negative assets and went an entire off-season losing players without a GM.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Dec 3, 2022 14:26:04 GMT -6
Yes. With a team that had negative assets and went an entire off-season losing players without a GM. All of that is in the past now. And I don’t wish to engage in those dumbass arguments in the past that I was largely responsible for. But one time, just ONE TIME, can you admit you abused the system?
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Kong
2nd Rounder
Posts: 4,049
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Post by Kong on Dec 3, 2022 14:33:08 GMT -6
can you admit you abused the system? Yes. I did and don't disagree with the changes that were introduced. But I also thought Celtics situation was terrible. They had like 2-3 future first gone, like a -3000 bank and an Embiid with like 5 5s and they lost like their 2nd, 3rd, 4th best guy in an off-season without GM. But yes. Spending that much free cash makes no sense.
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Post by yourkers15 on Dec 3, 2022 15:22:46 GMT -6
Feel the free proxy camps should be for only this year and you can't super camp the players.
Gives them a month to build up money have their assets get a bump and set them up to look better. After that they would need to use cash in some way.
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