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Post by PopeMattythe1st on Apr 7, 2020 10:16:39 GMT -6
camby/outlaw/macado- raptors next 3 firsts
for Oneil/Giannis
this was sent to trade council here is my rational for having accepted this deal
* Jazz are a mess currently with good players like Oneil, Conley, Payton and Malone
they don't have their own 85 first, so they wont be able to improve in the draft.
if they have no one resign on the offseason they will have 5 players and only about 22 million in cap space. reign oneil and they have 7 million in cap space or less, another year as a bottom dweller. Things will still be hard on them moving forward until Paytons deal is gone.
yes they could resign Malone and O'neil, and then they are still about as good as they are now.
in other words, keeping Malone and O'Neil is just keeping status quo, Malone's contract is too large to expect to move, but I have a decent return for O'neil, and a secondary trade based off the O'neil deal that will pay the Jazz a nice chunk of change.
If this deal is allowed to go through, I will have close to enough cash to buy out Paytons last two years, 3 tradable first rounders to work with. And after next season I will have the team sitting nicely with 50 million in cap space, 2 high in lotto rookies and cash in the bank.
the alternative is possibly losing O'neil in f/a, waiting anther year to start rebuilding and having little to show for it.
Finely John's issues with the last deal was based on him feeling too little was going back to the jazz, not the restructuring of O'neils contract. So that ought not be an issue
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Post by Keyser Soze on Apr 7, 2020 16:55:32 GMT -6
Jermaine is a 22 year old superstar. Sure he’s a expiring but the chances of him entering free agency AND rejecting a SuperMax to sign elsewhere is what? 2 percent? Probably even less. I mean he offered to re-sign during the re-signing period last year. To trade him because he’s expiring is fucking crazy.
I wouldn’t consider Holding onto a 22 year old elite talent to = maintaining the status quo. I consider it to be common fucking sense. It’s something you do regardless if youre rebuilding, contending, or even if you’re high on Meth you still understand not to trade a guy like Jermaine O’Neal.
And for what? Future first round picks from a team that’s gonna have Durant, Wade, LeBron, and Jermaine? Those firsts are gonna have as much value as those second round picks you always offer me.
Stop fucking trading Jermaine O’Neal. You go to Chicago you cost them Webber. Go to San Antonio you cost them Dirk. Now it’s Jermaine. Stop it already.
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Post by coldbeatle89 on Apr 7, 2020 17:05:55 GMT -6
Wait he’s the one that did the Dirk trade?
Smh.
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Post by coldbeatle89 on Apr 7, 2020 17:07:15 GMT -6
How about this- you trade him, fine. But if you trade him, he loses his birds.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Apr 7, 2020 17:29:58 GMT -6
And another thing you lump Moses Malone in with Jermaine. What does Moses Malone have to do with Jermaine? Moses is 30, Jermaine is 22. You wanna let Moses walk, let him walk. Rebuild, tank. Jazz have all their first round picks after the upcoming draft. They’ll have cap space as well moving forward. Especially if you buyout Payton’s last two years.
So you rebuild, tank, collect high picks. Then 2-3 years when you’re ready to compete guess how old Jermaine will be? 25. 25 fucking years old. He would still fit the age range of the incoming first round picks.
They’re gonna have cap space and picks. What’s wrong with them also having the best young big man in the game to go with that? 98 inside scoring. 81 post D. 85 blocks. 100/100 rebounds. If we had a redraft right now with all the players in the league I guarantee he’s a top 5 pick. To me in terms of talent/age he’s the most valuable big man in the entire league.
I understand the jazz are a mess right now. They got a lot of problems. Jermaine is the least of their problems. In fact he’s the only part of the solution right now. Why trade him?
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Post by PopeMattythe1st on Apr 7, 2020 19:42:06 GMT -6
FDA I get exactly what you are saying
i'll take your points in both posts 1 at a time
the first: The chances of him not resigning, I realize its low, I just don't like the idea of risking it in light of what I will be trying to do with the team. But Im not trading him solely based on the idea the Jazz could/might lose him.
im trading him for three reasons 1)- because I get something useful in return in the deal- and I have a secondary deal based on the trade that makes it even better. 2)- with O'neil not on the books next season there is another max deal I can offer to another player- which in turn I can flip for more assets next season 3)- when in 2 or 3 seasons id be prepared to truly move into contender range Oneil's contract is going take up a lot of cap space. Id rather have 3 or 4 rookies and three 15 million guys just starting out a filler guy and a MLE than Oneil hogging 1/3 of the salary already.
abut Moses and O'neil- I was only stating that even if both resign they will stay at about the same quality of team as they are now. Their ages are not relevant to how I am looking at either. If I can trade Jermaine, and Moses agrees to resign I will look for a trade for him or let him walk. I'd brought up Malone because his deal is pretty much too much to move at the moment and since no one is biting on the 20 million plus guys who are expiring its not worth really looking for a partner.
This team is going to need to tank for three more seasons, if no one has claimed that team by them I will have created a team that will have a well developed d league squad, and three top ten draft picks all being well camped, and have nearly 50 million in cap space. that's the goal i'm working towards.
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Post by Joe Curry on Apr 8, 2020 6:09:02 GMT -6
I understand he is viewed as a valuable piece . To any team . Jermaine is a tone setting player and with my team i jump from a top 8 team into the discussion as a top one . I get that part . But with my contracts and how there presently constructed . Tops is I get this year out of him since yes I would be forced into a sign and trade with another team . But this is Camby call him what you want . He is a present in this league threw his ability to block shots which primarily of the bench garners top 10 at the position and Rebounding . Outlaw has never been camped and in past alterations of this league . He is a player you all would want to have since he offers outstanding Blocking and Steals from the the 2 wing positions as well if need be as a PG ala Nick Young . Since he can handle the ball and has the quickness . His remedy is TLC by a caring provider . In that case he's 25 on a 4 year contract that's 4m . Sweet deal . Then we have Griffin McAdoo a player that can't make the rotation with my team . Because how I'm set up . But if probably used for the rest of the season perhaps he may flourish and be signed cheaper . The 3 Draft picks yes I hope they're all mid to late 20s but that's a far way off . Like I said for a rental with option for 1 year then I would have to trade him are someone else . Giannis is a LLE to Min level player here best a MLE . Also a rental a loner really more like it . So that's why I feel that this trade should go through . That the only reasoned voices i heard why the trade should not go through is FDA and I can understand and from John since he wanted a council on this . Coldbeetle seems to be new herebut he should keep his birds why should the player albeit Electronic .be Deprived of that . I can't afford 4 max player's the best I can do is to Trade him if he does resign or someone else on my team . And Since New York and now the Timberwolves or in contention could be a reason but not really . This can help as much as we have a new staff of gms as well . It should go through
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Post by klomper24 on Apr 8, 2020 6:45:40 GMT -6
Jermaine should not be allowed to be traded, his contract was adjusted. That's the only reason raptors can even do this deal, and then could take advantage of it two fold by extending the cheap contract for an additional year. No way this should be allowed.
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Post by Joe Curry on Apr 8, 2020 8:45:14 GMT -6
Yet another perennial winning team like the Knicks
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Post by sidtiancam on Apr 8, 2020 16:14:11 GMT -6
Jermaine should not be allowed to be traded, his contract was adjusted. That's the only reason raptors can even do this deal, and then could take advantage of it two fold by extending the cheap contract for an additional year. No way this should be allowed.
This is the reason, that even if a deal was "fair", he can not be traded. His contract was adjusted.
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Post by lakerball on Apr 8, 2020 17:04:09 GMT -6
Jermaine should not be allowed to be traded, his contract was adjusted. That's the only reason raptors can even do this deal, and then could take advantage of it two fold by extending the cheap contract for an additional year. No way this should be allowed. this is the exact point.
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Post by Keyser Soze on Apr 8, 2020 17:05:19 GMT -6
Maybe in the future we don’t go with the contract adjustment route anymore. It creates weird situations.
If we have a non active GM and he’s on the verge of going over the hardcap by re-signing players the league should intervene and handle the issue before it becomes an issue.
Maybe we don’t allow a team to sign or re-sign a player to go over the hardcap period. It avoids the future mess.
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Post by lynchcats on Apr 9, 2020 18:00:20 GMT -6
My .02 worth is if a team can't be bothered to check their team during the re-sign period then the players should go to free agency, not automatically be re-signed. Don't reward them for inactivity.
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Post by crazyguy2010 on Apr 10, 2020 14:56:46 GMT -6
My .02 worth is if a team can't be bothered to check their team during the re-sign period then the players should go to free agency, not automatically be re-signed. Don't reward them for inactivity. 1. John doesn't do this I believe its the game that just accepts all resign offers if they aren't declined. Which if alot of GM fail to do them or there are a alot of unowned teams could be alot of work to decline them all. 2. If all inactive or unowned teams players just get declined makes it harder to find people to take those teams because they don't keep good players. 3. Even if he just declined all players for inactive GM's who fail to post resigning's and not unowned teams that could lead to the same thing as #2.
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Post by PopeMattythe1st on Apr 15, 2020 22:57:47 GMT -6
camby/outlaw/macado- raptors next 3 firsts for Oneil/Giannis the alternative is possibly losing O'neil in f/a, waiting anther year to start rebuilding and having little to show for it. *cough cough*
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Post by John1974 on Apr 16, 2020 7:40:42 GMT -6
camby/outlaw/macado- raptors next 3 firsts Bird rightd for Oneil/Giannis the alternative is possibly losing O'neil in f/a, waiting anther year to start rebuilding and having little to show for it. *cough cough*
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Daboy
1st Rounder
1975 ITP Champs (ITP2), 1987 ITP Champs (ITP3), 1987 GMOTY
Posts: 6,600
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Post by Daboy on Apr 16, 2020 7:59:36 GMT -6
I would have liked 3 draft picks...
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Post by John1974 on Apr 16, 2020 9:34:36 GMT -6
camby/outlaw/macado- raptors next 3 firsts for Oneil/Giannis the alternative is possibly losing O'neil in f/a, waiting anther year to start rebuilding and having little to show for it. *cough cough* He still has his bird rights
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kong
College Bench Warmer
Posts: 691
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Post by kong on Apr 18, 2020 13:04:04 GMT -6
Realistically speaking I don't see how it was possible for O'Nein to walk. O´Neil, Marbury, Allen they all re-signed.
I kept hearing I could get multiple max contracts but that was pretty impossible I figure. Why would any of these guys would pick a 6 years deal with 10% increases over a 7 years deal with 12.5% increases. Plus it is a no brainer for old teams to offer the supermax considering they are only offering the 25% max.
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Post by PopeMattythe1st on Apr 18, 2020 13:22:25 GMT -6
Because it's a computer algorithm not based on setimataly, common sense or emotional responses.
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